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Thirteen
19 NOVEMBER 2004
Uh, Bill? Think it's time to throw in the towel?
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| Home > News > Local News |
Rochester Time:
10:36 am
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Mayor calls saving ferry urgent
Europeans could get ship and taxpayers' $15.3 million with it.
Rick Armon
Staff writer (November 19, 2004) — The city must save Rochester's high-speed ferry service before the ship is sold elsewhere and sails away for good, taking a boatload of taxpayer money with it, Mayor William A. Johnson Jr. says. The mayor officially announced his plan Thursday to turn the cash-strapped private ferry service into a publicly run operation. The proposal involves creating a public authority — the Rochester Port and Ferry Authority — that would sell government-backed bonds to buy, own and run the ferry. The initial cost to purchase the ship, pay off previous
debts and get the service running again is estimated at $40 million. The senior lenders who hold the rights to the ferry "already have potential buyers in Europe and other places," he said. If it's sold, the city and state, which have spent $1.3 million and $14 million, respectively, on the ferry itself could lose their investment. In all, taxpayers have invested about $50 million in the
ship, ferry terminal and infrastructure at the port, Johnson said. Johnson also pledged that the ferry would not need any future public subsidies — a promise reminiscent of former Monroe County Executive Bob King's pledge in 1993 that Frontier Field would be self-supporting. Local taxpayers are now supplementing the sports facility with $1.68 million a year. The mayor is meeting with City Council and state lawmakers to sell his proposal. Council and the state Legislature must approve the formation of an authority. Lawmakers say they want to scrutinize the business plan. The big question is whether there is enough political and public support for the city proposal. A majority of respondents to a recent Democrat and Chronicle poll said they want to see the ferry become a permanent link between Rochester and Toronto, but few people wanted more public money used to keep it going. "As we move forward, the mayor must make a case that his alternative is the only alternative," said state Sen. Michael Nozzolio, R-Fayette, Seneca County. He also said he wanted to hear public input. Assemblyman Joseph Morelle, D-Irondequoit, said he's not
sure the city has explored all of its options. Monroe County Executive Maggie Brooks said the mayor's plan should be explored and the community needs "to do what we can to preserve the ferry in Rochester." But the $40 million "would be a big price" without assurances that ferry revenue could cover the costs, she said. The $42.5 million Spirit of Ontario — a massive vessel that can carry up to 774 passengers and 238 cars — made its last voyage between Rochester and Toronto on Sept. 7 after less than three months in operation. The private ferry company, Canadian American Transportation Systems, said it was bleeding money and had to shut down. City officials already have made an offer to CATS to buy the ship, which sits idle in the Genesee River. That offer would pay off some debts, "but is not a bailout of CATS," said Linda Kingsley, city corporation counsel. While CATS owns the ship now, the senior lenders could take possession of it through legal means, she said. The city hopes the matter will be settled amicably and not in the court system, she added. CATS officials could not be reached for comment
Thursday. Johnson said it's vital to keep the ferry here because
it sets Rochester apart from other midsize U.S. cities and links the
community with Toronto.
(ed. MMMM. OK. That sure sounds worth driving an entire
community deeper into the financial dumper.) But the city is already facing skepticism. He supports the ferry service but wants it to be run
privately. If it can't be, "then it should go away," he said. When the government runs an operation, there tends to be
a lack of innovation and attention to minimizing costs, he said. "I'm slightly troubled by the city having to buy the
fast ferry without what would appear any private support," he said.
RARMON@DemocratandChronicle.com |
Ohhh NOOOOO!!! Ya mean all our tax dollars are going to be flushed down the drain to help the next buyers of the ferry?? Sort of like buying a new car then selling it for a fraction of its value because one can't make the car payments??? Ya mean like eating the cost of a new ferry so the next owner can have a virtually new vessel at a bargain-basement price?
'Zat whatcha mean? And Lord Have Mercy... not only would local tax dollars be subsidizing the next owners' purchase... there's a chance that Good 'Ol American Greenbacks would be shipped by the tens of millions to a <<gasp>> EUROPEAN country!!! Ohhh NOOOOO!!!
Why... that... that would make us look like quite the fools!! The buyers would be laughing at the stupidity of the situation and then Rochester's Fast Fiasco would be TRULY international news. How mortifying.
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Mayor Pitches Plan To Lawmakers by Seth Voorhees and Lisa Carino Published Nov 19, 2004 Rochester's mayor met with representatives locally, from the state assembly, and the state senate. The goal is to convince them about his plans for the city to buying the struggling Fast Ferry. The mayor unveiled those plans for the city to purchase the Spirit of Ontario on Thursday. The plan calls for the creation of a ferry and port authority, which would sell about $40 million worth of bonds to buy and operate the vessel. That is where the state legislature would come in. State lawmakers would have to approve the set-up of an authority. At the two-hour meeting at City Hall, Mayor Johnson outlined his business plan for the ferry to state law makers. Lawmakers leaving the meeting all expressed their viewpoints, "I think this community was loud and clear about whether or not they wanted that ferry and the answer was yes. (ed. Of course, you have something other than conjecture and opinion to back that statement up, don't you?) Whether or not we should go for it based on the resources we have to put in remains to be seen, but I would give the mayor an opportunity to at least present his story," said State Assemblyman David Gantt. State Senator Joe Robach had a different perspective of the situation, "One thing that came out of this meeting is there does seem to be a push from the primary lenders ethic that they want to get their money back. So we are going to have to look at expedited window as to what we can do to try and salvage this." (ed. And salvage may be the only option to do that) State Senator Jim Alesi expressed concern for taxpayers, “We all want to see the ferry back in action, but the operating costs and the possibility down the road that even if we do create an authority that sells bonds to do the initial costs, the operating costs could come back to haunt the taxpayers and that's my main concern." Still, Mayor Johnson feels that the city can make The Breeze a viable venture, "There’s a general aversion to taking a private sector business and converting it into the public sector, but I think when people understand that this is really the only viable option, I hope that in the final analysis, they'll support it," said Mayor Johnson. The big concern seems to be that taxpayers not be stuck with any bill as far as the city’s plan to purchase the Fast Ferry. From here on out, state law makers will take some time to digest the plan before they make their final decision. The mayor has assured the state lawmakers at this meeting that the city plan does not include something that would put any more burdens on taxpayers. |
Strange. I just looked in the mirror and didn't see the word 'Idiot' tattooed across my forehead.
The local and/or State government sell bonds to investors who fork over cash with the assurances by the local and/or State government that they - the investors - will get their money back with interest. How does the local and/or State government plan on getting the cash to do that? From the proceeds of a robust ferry operation.... or so the theory goes.
The local and/or State government guarantees the investor won't be left with a very nifty-looking, but worthless certificate because who has more access to a fat bank account than government? That's a pretty safe investment as far as investments go.... not the most lucrative mind you, but fairly safe.
What happens if the anticipated influx of revenue from the ferry never materializes? Are the bonds worthless? Nope... remember, the local and/or State government guaranteed them and the investor gets paid according to the agreement.
So where does the local and/or State government come up with the cash to repay the bonds?
Just guess.
It comes out of the government's piggy bank which is continuously being kept well stocked from the proceeds of taxes from... you guessed it... the taxpayer.
"The mayor has assured the state lawmakers at this meeting that the city plan does not include something that would put any more burdens on taxpayers."
Now for the Question of the Day: "Just how many brain-dead Rochester area ferry supporters are running around tonight babbling that Mayor Bill's Plan won't cost the taxpayer a dime?" Please keep in mind we're talking about a community which struts around with pride in the ability to mindlessly parrot back sound bites and media blurbs with all the profound conviction of 'I saw it on TV/read it in the paper, so it must be true'.
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| Home > News > Local News |
Rochester Time:
9:31 pm
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City releases 30-page ferry business plan
Rick Armon
Staff writer (November 19, 2004) — City officials today
released their business plan to buy Rochester's private high-speed ferry
service and turn it into a publicly run operation. The city plan calls for the creation of a public authority — the Rochester Port and Ferry Authority — that would issue $40 million in government-backed bonds to buy the massive vessel and oversee the business. "It's better to try this way than to hope and pray that someone comes along with a solution," said Mayor William A. Johnson Jr., who believes a public takeover of the private ferry is the only way to save the popular service. (ed. Doesn't look like it was 'popular' enough. And if this is the 'only' way to save the ferry, I'd say this clearly falls under the category of 'Desperate Last Ditch Effort'.) He also emphasized that no taxpayer money would be used to buy the ship. Instead, the authority would raise the necessary cash through the bond sale, although taxpayers would be liable if the service foundered again. (ed. Oh. So the taxpayer WILL end up footing the bill after all.) The $42.5 million Spirit of Ontario — a massive vessel that can carry up to 774 passengers and 238 cars — made its last voyage between Rochester and Toronto on Sept. 7 after less than three months in operation. CATS said it was bleeding money and had to shut down. U.S. taxpayers have invested about $50 million in the ferry project — in the ship itself, in the ferry terminal constructed at the Port of Rochester and in the surrounding infrastructure. Johnson said city officials learned from mistakes made by CATS and built its business plan on conservative assumptions. For example, the plan estimates that 385,705 passengers — or about 416 per trip — would ride the ship annually. That compares with CATS' estimate that 450,000 riders were needed before the operation would break even. The operating revenue in the first year would total $19.5 million. Expenses in the first year would be $20.3 million — mainly driven by debt payments. The authority also would have a $4 million reserve fund available in the first year. Other key elements of the plan: The ferry would carry 59,200 cars annually or about 64 per crossing. The average income per car would be $41. CATS charged $40 per car. About 5,480 trucks or buses would use the ferry in the first year or about six per trip. The vessel can hold only 10 trucks or buses at onetime. The average truck or bus fare would be $260. Offering two daily roundtrips between mid April and mid October, and only one roundtrip four days a week during the off-season months. |
See what I mean? Mayor Bill's plan will stick the taxpayer with the tab whether they agree or not. 'If' the ferry founders again? Please. These leaders take us for complete douche bags and anybody who believes otherwise has no business being allowed to vote.
Nope. Ain't gonna give up on this one. Exemplary stupidity requires extraordinary vigilance, so here we go again:
| "There aren't enough passengers to keep the Ferry profitable over the long term". | ||
That's the crux of the situation. That's the most relevant aspect which should be the primary guiding feature in any discussion concerning the fate of the ferry. From the first nascent inspiration to the final voyage out of the Port of Rochester, if there aren't sufficient customers to support paying the business costs it doesn't matter HOW much money is invested. When operating costs outpace income, the result is a deficit situation. Regardless of WHOEVER owns, operates or manages the business. It's just that simple.
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Rochester Port and Ferry Authority A Plan of Business
City of Rochester
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Whattya think? Should I send a public comment to City Hall? Think the Powers That Be would suddenly slap their foreheads, blurt out "Damn, you were right all along!" and rush to close out this ferry mess once and for all?
No? Me neither.
So how is the taxpayer supposed to stop the political machine from charging headfirst into yet another orgy of tossing away tens of millions of dollars which they neither asked for nor authorized?
Lawmakers go ahead and allow the creation of a Port Authority and issuing bonds is given a nod. The ferry fires the engines and shoves off amid high school marching bands, bursts of confetti and ebullient locals dancing in the streets. Then - after a few weeks of struggling - the unthinkable happens.
Let's assume... 'pretend' if you will... that there's the eensiest, tiniest, most improbable chance that maybe... possibly... I might be right and the ferry really won't be able to make a go of it... ever. (I know that's a real stretch, but I'll let my record speak for itself.)
Where's the money to repay the bond holders going to come from? If I, the taxpayer, will be expected to pick up the tab... I at least want to be able to have a say in what's been ordered. And I never asked to set up a fast ferry service. CATS did. Let THEM pay the bill as it's THEIR problem, not mine.
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More googling:
| Given how much attention the ferry is getting in
Rochester, and how little in Toronto, I'd say it's a fair guess that this
is more for Rochester's benefit than ours. But I'd still take it just for
fun. I mean, I did grow up watching Rochester local news. I need to see
where all those shootings and chemical spills took place... Posted by: Alasdair at May 5, 2004 01:54 PM |
High praise indeed. See? Rochester already has a special caché. "Sumbuddy whip us up a postcard.."
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People get the government they deserve and if 85.6% of respondents feel the City of Rochester should buy the ferry, anybody want to wager how many will feel the same way after their taxes rise to cover the losses?
Of course, as with any rudimentary poll, there are no indications of the number of respondents. Are the results the consensus of 200 people? 2,000? 200,000? It's pretty meaningless to derive any serious gauge of public sentiment if there's no stated number of replies. And to be fair, most of these media polls are admittedly 'unscientific'.
Still, the yokels jump on any blurb on the tube, hang on with a death grip and suddenly an informal poll becomes de facto public policy. Thus, the Parrot Set waddles around with "Over 85% of the Rochester area want to save the ferry". Huh? Bit of an over-reaching leap in judgment, wouldn't you say?
Tell me what I want to hear and you're a genius. Tell me what I don't want to hear and you're a blathering idiot. The Age of Enlightenment is alive and well in the Rochester community.
" The state must create a port authority. There are three ways this could work.
1. The city could hire a private company to run the ferry under control of the port authority.
2. A not-for-profit group could run the operation under port authority control.
3. The Rochester port/ferry authority could directly run the ferry operation."
#1 - No. Say it ain't so. Tell me the City of Rochester and Monroe County have learned their lesson about 'contracting out' through the numerous companies which have arrived, then left with gigantic deficits from running the Blue Cross Arena and the High Falls extravaganza. There's been at least two different outside companies which have tried - and failed - to make either the BC Arena or High Falls a success. 'Hiring a private company' to run the ferry? You mean as in 'CATS Junior'?
#2 - Some group is going to operate without profit, take the flak for some donkey of an idea and make scads of money for the City of Rochester? Why sure... it COULD happen!! (Oh... and for you non-Rochester are residents: to my knowledge, the public water supply does NOT contain mass quantities of LSD.)
#3 - A'yup. We got a winner here! Totally clueless locals who know diddly about running a high-speed ferry service would miraculously turn the operation around and pack the boat on every run.... so much so, that tens of millions of dollars in bonds are repaid, the tourists are streaming down from Toronto and the commercial trucking firms are yammering about the insufficient number of runs back and forth across the Lake. (Now you non-residents have me thinking. Maybe there's only trace amounts of LSD in the water.)
"The state of Washington runs ferry service from Seattle to the outer islands of Alaska. It’s called the Alaska Marine Highway."
There's something known as an 'Atlas' and it's got colourful pitchures and ever'thin. And if you look REAL careful-like, you can see it would be one HELLUVA bridge between Seattle and outer islands of Alaska. And comparing a totally optional and redundant means of crossing a Great Lake with the only means of passenger transportation (with the exception of air transit) across a world ocean is a nice try, but totally irrelevant and meaningless. That's called 'Common Sense'. Local 'leaders' might wish to try it out sometime.
"The state of Maine launched a subsidized ferry service in 1959. The Maine Port Authority runs six ferries. A spokesperson there said since it is considered public transportation, there's no need to turn profits. Ticket prices are kept low and the service is more stable."
The City of Rochester can't even run decent BUS service; how're we supposed to believe it'll fare any better with a highly specialized ferry service? And I was completely unaware the City of Rochester had the resources of the entire state of Maine... GEEZ... no WONDER it's considering buying a ferry! If one is a real boon to the area, think what TWO would mean!!
Maine State Ferry ServiceFrom Rockland:To:
Vinalhaven From LincolnvilleTo: Islesboro From Bass HarborTo:
Swans Island Rates & Information
http://www.state.me.us/mdot/opt/ferry/maine-ferry-service.php |
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Why...what's THIS? Six ferries going from the mainland to off-shore islands and back? THAT doesn't sound like same as a pricy and admittedly optional service for drivers too lazy to drive around a lake, now does it?
Once again, the Well-It-Works-For-Them-So-It'll-Work-For-Us mentality of locals 'leaders'. Yes, we're DEEPLY in Desperation Mode now.
"Rhode Island also has a Port Authority. Their ferry is popular but the federal grant that funded its launch in 2004 is about to run out."
Yesss?? And this affects us... how? I'm not sure the Quonset Point RI to Martha's Vineyard fast ferry has been in operation long enough to judge its success. Considering that it, also, is a redundant service aimed at lazy drivers (90-minute crossing, 30-minute pre-boarding and it operates only from May to October - link) that may not be the best comparison to make. But desperate times call for desperate analogies, I suppose.
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Where are the ferry terminals? | |
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In Martha's Vineyard:
We do not have a ferry "terminal" located
in Oak Bluffs, but we do have a company
representative named "Richard" who is on the dock 60 minutes prior to each
departure. (ed. Hmm. Are
you imagining the same picture as I am?) The ferry
arrives and departs just inside the harbor of the Oak Bluffs Marina (where
the Island Queen docks). Everything is within walking distance from our
arrival location. (ed. Hey... just like in
Toronto! A very brisk 30-minute walk.)
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